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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 249 249 for the 28th of

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July 2013 Richard Saunders here with you

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back again back again in Sydney

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Australia and what a wonderful time I

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had visiting the United States

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especially visiting the amazing meeting

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in Las Vegas are a busy time to be sure

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but lots of fun and so interesting and

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thank you to all those people who came

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up to say hello all those skeptics own

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fans I am I was so pleased and touched

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to to meet you all it was really great

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and yes more than one person commented

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on the fact that at the beginning of

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every episode of the skeptic sounded and

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I'm always racing downstairs to grab

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something to eat or drink I'm not really

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sure why that started but you know what

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we'll see if we can continue that

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tradition life life is like a box of

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chocolates somebody once said and that's

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what the skeptic zone is like this

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episode it's a bit of a mixture a mixed

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bag you never know what you're going to

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get well I'll tell you I'll tell you

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what you're getting on this episode of

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the skeptics and we're kicking off with

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our favorite doctor rachy reports dr.

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Reggie reports looks at some of the

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ramifications of that TV report and her

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efforts to get chiropractors to answer a

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very very simple question that's coming

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up at the top of the show after that we

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have a an interview concerning getting

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more science into the mainstream media

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what a worthwhile endeavor from the

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website www and in science com will find

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more about the petition the petition

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running to get more science into the

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media an interview with Rowan from end

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in science coming up a little bit later

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in the show and after that it's our good

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friend dr. Paul Willis from the Royal

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Institution of Australia with the

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fill-in segment all about what's

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happening in the world of science at the

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moment and the good

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news is what the better news because

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it's always good to have falls on the

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show the better news is of course next

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week the full blown week in science

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returns as if that wasn't enough folks

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as if that wasn't enough after that we

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have an interview with Ben Radford the

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paranormal investigator and joining been

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halfway through the interview is none

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other than Brian Dunning who sort of

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photobombed gatecrashed what's the word

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the interview I was having with Ben

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Radford but it was all in good fun we're

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having dinner in Hollywood been and I've

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step aside into a sort of a corridor and

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we're having a chat and suddenly Brian

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Dunning appeared and that's all coming

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up it's a wide-ranging sort of chat

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amongst friends I think he'll enjoy it

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and then to round off the show well what

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skeptic zone would be complete without

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maynard's spooky action and this is the

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first partner your little series we're

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running with Maynard where he talked to

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Marlo Cassetti the maloca said he was

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instrumental in the early days of NASA I

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don't know where Maynard gets these

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people from Andy's a skeptic good to

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know so in the first part of the

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interviews we learn about the early days

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of NASA and how accurate was I Dream of

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Jeannie only may not can ask these

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questions now some messages just before

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he get into the show Tony McCaffrey his

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daughter Dana sadly died from pertussis

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in that 2009 has launched a petition at

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change.org whooping cough booster make

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it clear make it easy make it affordable

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I'll put a link to the show notes but if

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you go to change.org and search for

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whooping cough booster you'll see that

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petition and I certainly I certainly

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urge you to support that and and just

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before we dive into the skeptic zone

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don't forget the Australian skeptics

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National Convention is coming up the

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22nd to the 24th of November the website

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to to run to straightaway straightaway

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is national skeptics

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convention dot org and don't forget

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we'll be announcing the winner of the

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Australian skeptics bent spoon award the

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National Convention in Canberra 22nd to

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the 24th of November and the Canberra

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people tell me there are still tickets

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left but please don't delay and it will

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be really great to see you there the

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theme is conspiracy theories well now

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it's time for me to run downstairs open

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the fridge get out that bottle of lemon

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lime and bitters hmm month it's quite

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refreshing yes why not lemon lime and

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bitters tonight folks while I'm enjoying

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now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

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hello listeners and welcome to dr. HC

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reports well a few Thursday's ago

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chiropractors in Australia cop dibala

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King on the National Science program

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catalyst as dr. Mary Ann Damacy turned a

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spotlight on their profession and the

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wash-up wasn't pretty what resulted was

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examples of quackery infighting between

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professional bodies and the revelation

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that chiropractic does not have an

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adverse event reporting system in

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Australia now I want to emphasize that

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point because you can often hear the cry

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from chiropractors that their profession

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is overwhelmingly safe compared to

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science-based medicine and this is

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usually followed by some straw man about

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the numbers of iatrogenic deaths in

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science-based medicine but how do they

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know their profession is safe if they

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don't record adverse events or side

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effects well to be blunt they don't even

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before the program aired a few

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Thursday's ago many chiropractors had

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hit the catalyst Facebook page in a

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pre-programmed show of support and this

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perhaps may be a result of an email that

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had been sent by the chiropractic

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association of australia to all their

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members warning them about the impending

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criticism i decided to jump in too

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because i had a burning question that

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had been bugging me for weeks it

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concerns the vaccination status of

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pediatric chiropractors and occurred to

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me when I saw some pictures of

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chiropractors leaning over very young

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children to adjust them or whatever it

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is they do now this worries me for

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several reasons number one Australia has

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been in the grips of a Potosi said

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Emmett and kids have died number two

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it's thought that it is adults who are

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passing on the bacteria because their

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vaccination status for pertussis has

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worn off now the vaccine only lasts

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between about four and eight years so

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adults need to get boosters number three

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kids under the age of six months are

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most likely to suffer and die from

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infection with pertussis given that they

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are not fully vaccinated and thus are

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not protected also by way of background

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there are two professional bodies for

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chiropractors in Australia the

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chiropractic association of australia

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who i just mentioned before

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had no policy on vaccination but

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published one of sorts in May 2013 and

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in my opinion it's pretty wishy-washy it

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simply says chiropractors do not provide

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vaccination services chiropractors

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should encourage their patients to make

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informed healthcare decisions and to

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consult their GP in relation to the

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risks and benefits of vaccination the

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other professional body for

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chiropractors in Australia is the

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chiropractic and osteopathic College of

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Australia or coca who are quite clear

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about their stance on vaccinations they

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say Koko endorses the government of

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Australia's policy and position on

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immunisation as a simple safe and

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effective way of protecting people

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against harmful diseases so if this in

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mind I had a burning question for

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pediatric chiropractors concerning duty

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of care for babies and what steps they

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take to ensure that they're protected

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during manipulation of babies and

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children I ask this because my guess is

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if kairos themselves are

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anti-vaccination then it seems unlikely

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that they will be diligent about getting

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boosters for things like pertussis and I

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could be wrong and i hope i am now well

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known to regular listeners is the

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anti-vaccine pediatric chiropractor

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nimrod weiner who has published several

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pictures of himself leaning over babies

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while adjusting them on his facebook

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page now nimrod weiner declined to

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comment on the catalyst episode even

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though a complaint made about his

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anti-vaccine material was mentioned

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during the show so i started off by

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commenting on a post made by dr. tony

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croak chiropractor who says on his

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website that he is skilled in cranial

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adjusting techniques which are often

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very helpful for babies and children he

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has also previously been a professional

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member of the avian he's on the National

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Board of the chiropractic association

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who also approved a continuing

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professional development course by the

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notorious anti-vaccine chiropractor tim

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o'shea on a thread that Tony started on

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the catalyst page I commented with the

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following hi Tony thanks for commenting

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here there's a question that has been

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posed by myself and others on this page

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several times

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since yesterday afternoon perhaps you

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can answer it our pediatric I rose up to

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date with their vaccinations including

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boosters especially for pertussis which

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wears off I ask because as you probably

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know babies are at risk of attracting

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pertussis from unvaccinated adults hence

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there is good reason to be boosted for

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pertussis if you are around babies

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especially if you are in close contact

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with them during manipulations I am well

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aware of pediatric cairo dr weiners

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opinions on vaccinations having attended

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one of his seminars in 2010 where he

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spent two hours explaining how vaccines

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are at best unnecessary and it was

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harmful for this reason i wonder if he

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has had a pertussis booster and if not

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isn't he and others potentially putting

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kids at risk I understand you can't

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speak for him just using his

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anti-vaccine stance as an example when I

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attended his seminar is it the best

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thing you can do for a baby is get them

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to your chiropractor as soon as possible

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after they leave hospital so what

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mechanisms are in place to ensure

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pediatric kairos do not pass on vaccine

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preventable diseases this seems a

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particular concern if the chiro is

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anti-vaccine does your code of conduct

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say anything about this thanks in

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advance now this was posted on the

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facebook page on the twelfth of July at

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20 to 45 when by the following day it

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still hadn't been answered by any

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chiropractors let alone dr. Tony croak

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chiropractor I reposted it to the top of

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the page when still no chiropractors

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commented another 24 hours later my

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friend Annette had a go she posted the

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question can one just one chiropractor

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answer these questions so far no one has

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why as a professional body do you

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continue not to have an adverse events

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register have no position on

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vaccinations have non-approved

275
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:24,400
literature promoting all kinds of health

276
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matters in your rooms allow members to

277
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do presentations to the general public

278
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:31,120
with no mechanism of regulation to what

279
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:32,490
is presented

280
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:35,040
trying to present yourself as regulated

281
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:36,839
is a joke while this type of practice is

282
00:12:41,329 --> 00:12:38,850
allowed if you want to be taken

283
00:12:44,510 --> 00:12:41,339
seriously you need transparency and

284
00:12:46,250 --> 00:12:44,520
regulation this is seriously lacking now

285
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:46,260
eventually a chiropractor by the name of

286
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:48,240
steel butcher jumped in with this

287
00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:50,970
comment there are two professional

288
00:12:57,410 --> 00:12:54,110
bodies for chiropractors coca and CAA

289
00:13:00,620 --> 00:12:57,420
coca is pro vaccination unfortunately

290
00:13:02,510 --> 00:13:00,630
the CAA has no official stance tighter

291
00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:02,520
regulations would be nice however

292
00:13:07,730 --> 00:13:04,649
practice is still definitely regulated

293
00:13:11,420 --> 00:13:07,740
as with many professions politics gets

294
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:11,430
in the way so let me repeat that as with

295
00:13:18,019 --> 00:13:14,130
many professions politics gets in the

296
00:13:20,810 --> 00:13:18,029
way so politics gets in the way of duty

297
00:13:22,699 --> 00:13:20,820
of care to babies babies who cannot fend

298
00:13:25,010 --> 00:13:22,709
for themselves and are susceptible to

299
00:13:27,889 --> 00:13:25,020
vaccine preventable disease which could

300
00:13:30,650 --> 00:13:27,899
so easily be prevented if the CIA had

301
00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:30,660
the balls to tell their pediatric kairos

302
00:13:35,810 --> 00:13:33,300
to get boosted if they are not once

303
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:35,820
again I hope I am wrong this was my

304
00:13:40,430 --> 00:13:38,370
response to steal politics gets in the

305
00:13:41,870 --> 00:13:40,440
way of being vaccinated against VP DS

306
00:13:44,769 --> 00:13:41,880
when you're treating babies who are

307
00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:44,779
either a not vaccinated at all or be

308
00:13:50,269 --> 00:13:47,760
incompletely vaccinated that's appalling

309
00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:50,279
I would expect that nothing would get in

310
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:52,220
the way of duty of care to patients

311
00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:54,810
particularly when it comes to babies

312
00:14:00,260 --> 00:13:57,690
frankly I'm appalled now let me make

313
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:00,270
this clear as possible I am not accusing

314
00:14:05,060 --> 00:14:02,610
anyone of infecting kids with pertussis

315
00:14:07,190 --> 00:14:05,070
I am seeking in answer to the question

316
00:14:09,019 --> 00:14:07,200
if you're working with kids are you

317
00:14:12,350 --> 00:14:09,029
considering their welfare by having a

318
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:12,360
booster on the surface this seems like a

319
00:14:16,850 --> 00:14:14,730
simple question but over two weeks later

320
00:14:23,470 --> 00:14:16,860
it remains unanswered by any

321
00:14:28,610 --> 00:14:26,090
so I have been to seminars given by

322
00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:28,620
pediatric chiropractors before in fact

323
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:30,540
ones on the topic of vaccinations or

324
00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:32,490
I've listened to them tell parents to

325
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:34,350
get their kids to a chiro as soon as

326
00:14:40,310 --> 00:14:36,690
possible after leaving hospital some

327
00:14:42,829 --> 00:14:40,320
advise within hours if possible but at

328
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:42,839
what risk in medicine decisions about

329
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:44,850
interventions are determined based on a

330
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:46,490
risk versus benefit

331
00:14:51,380 --> 00:14:49,170
for example there was a risk in

332
00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:51,390
undergoing surgery but if the benefit of

333
00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:53,310
removing a tumor or whatever the problem

334
00:14:58,820 --> 00:14:55,830
may be outweighs the risks then people

335
00:15:02,180 --> 00:14:58,830
decide to do it but what about the risk

336
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:02,190
for pediatric chiropractic well when the

337
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:03,930
benefits are a bit better than placebo

338
00:15:09,050 --> 00:15:06,570
but the risks include sustaining an

339
00:15:11,270 --> 00:15:09,060
injury or worse a vaccine preventable

340
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:11,280
disease that might kill you then it's

341
00:15:16,460 --> 00:15:14,730
clear avoid it like the plague if you'd

342
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:16,470
like to read the transcript of this

343
00:15:21,620 --> 00:15:18,510
week's dr. Richie reports or follow any

344
00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:21,630
of the links or make a comment please go

345
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:24,180
to skeptics book calm the official blog

346
00:15:38,490 --> 00:15:27,120
of the skeptic zone and until next time

347
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:41,590
Rafiki have you heard the one about how

348
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:43,370
the Illuminati in conjunction with the

349
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:45,050
US government are hiding the existence

350
00:15:48,970 --> 00:15:46,880
of aliens in order to ensure the supply

351
00:15:50,620 --> 00:15:48,980
of helium is kept low or that the CIA

352
00:15:52,389 --> 00:15:50,630
the militant wing of the Freemasons are

353
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:52,399
working with the elders of zion to take

354
00:15:56,350 --> 00:15:53,839
control of the population of the world

355
00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:56,360
through fluoridated chemtrails canberra

356
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:58,130
skeptics incorporated on behalf of the

357
00:16:01,300 --> 00:15:59,600
shadow government will be massing an

358
00:16:03,850 --> 00:16:01,310
array of dark forces for the australian

359
00:16:05,620 --> 00:16:03,860
skeptics national convention 2013 this

360
00:16:07,269 --> 00:16:05,630
convention has conspired to coincide

361
00:16:09,550 --> 00:16:07,279
with the 50th anniversary of the

362
00:16:11,170 --> 00:16:09,560
assassination of John F Kennedy possibly

363
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:11,180
the most famous conspiracy theory of all

364
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:13,250
time if you've ever wanted to learn

365
00:16:17,019 --> 00:16:15,110
about the truth behind the death of JFK

366
00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:17,029
what makes for a good conspiracy theory

367
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:18,920
and why they are so prevalent Canberra

368
00:16:22,660 --> 00:16:20,930
skeptics invites you to attend that is

369
00:16:25,690 --> 00:16:22,670
of course should you choose to accept it

370
00:16:28,090 --> 00:16:25,700
come to national skeptics convention org

371
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:28,100
and just remember they will be watching

372
00:16:40,690 --> 00:16:38,320
well as I mentioned at the top of the

373
00:16:43,210 --> 00:16:40,700
show anybody out there who's interested

374
00:16:45,310 --> 00:16:43,220
in getting more science on the media

375
00:16:47,650 --> 00:16:45,320
especially on to the radio should pay

376
00:16:49,180 --> 00:16:47,660
careful attention on the line I've got

377
00:16:53,250 --> 00:16:49,190
Rowand kabataan who's going to tell us

378
00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:53,260
more about an effort a push to get more

379
00:16:58,930 --> 00:16:56,570
science into the media especially on to

380
00:17:02,560 --> 00:16:58,940
radio Rowan hello how are you Richard

381
00:17:04,150 --> 00:17:02,570
I'm doing really well I've not been back

382
00:17:06,370 --> 00:17:04,160
in the country too long but it's good to

383
00:17:08,170 --> 00:17:06,380
be home good to be home and it's good to

384
00:17:10,929 --> 00:17:08,180
talk to someone about promoting science

385
00:17:13,329 --> 00:17:10,939
which at heart I guess is what the

386
00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:13,339
skeptic zone is all about tell us more

387
00:17:18,730 --> 00:17:15,910
and tell us what your motivations are

388
00:17:21,309 --> 00:17:18,740
yeah well so the end in science campaign

389
00:17:23,980 --> 00:17:21,319
is really just designed to get more

390
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:23,990
science in the news media and to really

391
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:25,850
just get this discussion out in the open

392
00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:28,610
about what we think news should really

393
00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:30,470
be four I mean it grew out of a general

394
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:33,110
frustration for what qualifiers news i

395
00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:34,970
mean we hear so much sport we hear about

396
00:17:39,310 --> 00:17:37,310
so much petty crime and unfortunately so

397
00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:39,320
much tragedy that i really started to

398
00:17:43,660 --> 00:17:41,630
question why are we being told this

399
00:17:45,460 --> 00:17:43,670
what's the news for why do we listen and

400
00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:45,470
more importantly with regard to science

401
00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:47,990
what aren't we being told and in my

402
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,310
opinion most of the time we're not

403
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:50,960
hearing about science and when we do its

404
00:17:55,030 --> 00:17:53,120
infrequently done and often not done

405
00:17:57,370 --> 00:17:55,040
very well there's one of the criticisms

406
00:18:00,460 --> 00:17:57,380
we hear a lot actually is the science is

407
00:18:02,620 --> 00:18:00,470
either dumbed down for a lot of people

408
00:18:05,650 --> 00:18:02,630
to understand or it's made sensational

409
00:18:07,930 --> 00:18:05,660
or another bugbear of mine i must admit

410
00:18:11,620 --> 00:18:07,940
is the way that media will use the word

411
00:18:13,650 --> 00:18:11,630
breakthrough mmm i think that's that's

412
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:13,660
kind of really risky because if we start

413
00:18:18,370 --> 00:18:15,890
training people particularly people who

414
00:18:20,650 --> 00:18:18,380
are not involved deeply involved in

415
00:18:22,750 --> 00:18:20,660
science to expect breakthroughs but then

416
00:18:25,330 --> 00:18:22,760
it never materializes five years down

417
00:18:27,310 --> 00:18:25,340
the track then when we've got our quack

418
00:18:29,980 --> 00:18:27,320
offering some solution right here right

419
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:29,990
now it's very attractive I think and

420
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:31,490
we're kind of really promoting the wrong

421
00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:33,530
message when talking about science if

422
00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:34,790
we're always talking about breakthroughs

423
00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:36,910
that are sensationalized and over high

424
00:18:42,580 --> 00:18:40,310
that's true and it's also it's not quite

425
00:18:44,230 --> 00:18:42,590
how science works so there periodically

426
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:44,240
I guess there are things we could

427
00:18:46,570 --> 00:18:45,890
categorize as breakthroughs but they're

428
00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:46,580
pretty

429
00:18:53,409 --> 00:18:51,049
after many many years of painstaking

430
00:18:55,419 --> 00:18:53,419
research sure yeah if you dig a little

431
00:18:57,789 --> 00:18:55,429
little bit deeper if you scratch the

432
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:57,799
surface of you know the seven minutes of

433
00:19:01,210 --> 00:18:59,600
terror or the higgs boson there's

434
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:01,220
decades of work behind that even though

435
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:02,510
it seems like a breakthrough on the

436
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:05,090
surface yeah it does as those people

437
00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:06,559
aren't too interested in the years of

438
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:09,710
painstaking and methodical research and

439
00:19:14,830 --> 00:19:11,809
rather just hear about Oh does this work

440
00:19:16,529 --> 00:19:14,840
now and what does it do I guess yeah

441
00:19:19,690 --> 00:19:16,539
yeah how does it impact my everyday life

442
00:19:22,060 --> 00:19:19,700
yeah and they're told whether it's true

443
00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:22,070
or not yeah um but I but I think this

444
00:19:26,259 --> 00:19:24,590
this kind of campaigns like what I

445
00:19:28,019 --> 00:19:26,269
really think it's trying to do is what I

446
00:19:30,399 --> 00:19:28,029
what I'm really trying to do rather is

447
00:19:32,590 --> 00:19:30,409
hopefully to go some way towards solving

448
00:19:35,139 --> 00:19:32,600
some problems that have been long long

449
00:19:36,399 --> 00:19:35,149
standing in a skeptical community I mean

450
00:19:39,250 --> 00:19:36,409
I can go into a bit more detail for each

451
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:39,260
of these but I mean I like every other

452
00:19:43,419 --> 00:19:41,330
skeptic out there lament the quality of

453
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:43,429
science news reporting but I think a

454
00:19:47,019 --> 00:19:45,529
bigger issue is the fact it's not done

455
00:19:49,590 --> 00:19:47,029
often and I think that's one of the

456
00:19:51,909 --> 00:19:49,600
first issues we've got to solve I think

457
00:19:53,590 --> 00:19:51,919
also we're stamping out pseudoscience

458
00:19:54,970 --> 00:19:53,600
and misinformation which Australian

459
00:19:56,950 --> 00:19:54,980
skeptics are greater I mean we've got

460
00:19:59,590 --> 00:19:56,960
the avian on the back foot we totally

461
00:20:02,980 --> 00:19:59,600
destroyed the the balance the power

462
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:02,990
balance people we need I think the first

463
00:20:05,740 --> 00:20:04,250
step we need to is drown out

464
00:20:07,330 --> 00:20:05,750
misinformation and pseudoscience with

465
00:20:09,340 --> 00:20:07,340
actual information we can do that by

466
00:20:12,850 --> 00:20:09,350
just putting more of it into into our

467
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:12,860
news media and I think there's two more

468
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:14,330
things we can benefit from I mean false

469
00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:16,250
balance is the thing we were we're

470
00:20:20,409 --> 00:20:18,110
always criticizing the media for if we

471
00:20:22,539 --> 00:20:20,419
had more science the balance would not

472
00:20:24,340 --> 00:20:22,549
be so false it would definitely erase

473
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:24,350
any sensation that there's a false

474
00:20:28,269 --> 00:20:26,210
controversy and and science needs to

475
00:20:30,430 --> 00:20:28,279
reclaim some of the science scientific

476
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:30,440
words you know we need to own the word

477
00:20:33,970 --> 00:20:32,330
theory we need to own the word energy

478
00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:33,980
and we need to claw those back to have a

479
00:20:39,509 --> 00:20:37,190
grounded meaning we do i I can't agree

480
00:20:41,919 --> 00:20:39,519
with you more it's quite often we have a

481
00:20:45,220 --> 00:20:41,929
battle on our hands just trying to tell

482
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:45,230
people what the word energy means your

483
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:46,850
people use the word energy without

484
00:20:52,389 --> 00:20:49,130
having a clue a clue what it means I

485
00:20:55,870 --> 00:20:52,399
think in my experience it boils down to

486
00:20:58,840 --> 00:20:55,880
a lot of people think that they need to

487
00:20:59,730 --> 00:20:58,850
change the word energy and feeling like

488
00:21:01,770 --> 00:20:59,740
yeah

489
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:01,780
oh I've got a bad feeling about this

490
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:03,490
they'll say all the energies are bad

491
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:05,170
meaning the same thing that you know

492
00:21:09,299 --> 00:21:07,120
just they've got a slight hiccup in

493
00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:09,309
their emotional state yeah i mean i

494
00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:10,809
think the science scientists and

495
00:21:16,980 --> 00:21:13,870
skeptics of one if anyone invokes energy

496
00:21:18,660 --> 00:21:16,990
for any state and there that someone

497
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:18,670
responds with arm kick into kinetic

498
00:21:24,210 --> 00:21:21,610
energy power a light bulb with one we've

499
00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:24,220
won at that point so well i mean you

500
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:26,620
might you might hope we have but i don't

501
00:21:31,110 --> 00:21:27,910
think you've ever had a conversation

502
00:21:34,020 --> 00:21:31,120
with one of these people uh it goes

503
00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:34,030
nowhere fast and often it'll boil down

504
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:37,390
to I'll put the question to question two

505
00:21:41,730 --> 00:21:39,250
people what do you think energy is and

506
00:21:44,430 --> 00:21:41,740
they'll often come back with well the

507
00:21:48,090 --> 00:21:44,440
universe is made out of energy and yeah

508
00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:48,100
that's really odd to try and bring them

509
00:21:53,610 --> 00:21:51,120
back around to a logical and meaningful

510
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:53,620
dialogue you know when your premise is

511
00:21:56,460 --> 00:21:55,210
the universe it's kind of hard to bring

512
00:21:58,290 --> 00:21:56,470
it down to something to jest if I wasn't

513
00:22:03,030 --> 00:21:58,300
it yeah and how can you beat that

514
00:22:04,530 --> 00:22:03,040
skeptic I I think another thing that

515
00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:04,540
this campaign is really working on is

516
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:08,080
you know because the wound practitioners

517
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:08,890
that people have really don't know if

518
00:22:14,430 --> 00:22:11,170
there who are invoking things in a false

519
00:22:16,290 --> 00:22:14,440
way the signal-to-noise ratio is totally

520
00:22:18,990 --> 00:22:16,300
skewed in their favor you know if we had

521
00:22:21,090 --> 00:22:19,000
more news more science really pushing

522
00:22:23,790 --> 00:22:21,100
the ridicule fact out there we could

523
00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:23,800
drown out you know the noise the

524
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:25,150
misinformation they're making and we

525
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:26,410
could really just boost the signal of

526
00:22:30,030 --> 00:22:28,240
science and let it ring true and clear

527
00:22:31,290 --> 00:22:30,040
right through everyone's right through

528
00:22:33,299 --> 00:22:31,300
the norms of society right through our

529
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:33,309
media I think that would also be a huge

530
00:22:37,770 --> 00:22:35,170
boost it's just how we understand the

531
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:37,780
world around us it would yeah I totally

532
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:39,370
agree it would be I think it's a noble

533
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:42,580
ambition it's I think realistically it's

534
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:46,480
it's a long-term strategy I mean it are

535
00:22:51,390 --> 00:22:49,570
you having very hard to the media are so

536
00:22:53,669 --> 00:22:51,400
used to operating in the way they do and

537
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:53,679
a lot of the times as they need a story

538
00:23:00,780 --> 00:22:56,770
quickly and often don't have the time to

539
00:23:04,410 --> 00:23:00,790
dedicate to the proper research or again

540
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:04,420
it's the old story with a cheap and easy

541
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:07,510
story for the media many times is to

542
00:23:11,490 --> 00:23:09,910
simply get to opposing issues people

543
00:23:12,010 --> 00:23:11,500
from two opposing sides and put them

544
00:23:15,130 --> 00:23:12,020
together

545
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:15,140
hmm and I think that you know that the

546
00:23:18,740 --> 00:23:17,370
normal skeptic the average guy on the

547
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:18,750
street who considers themselves a

548
00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:21,690
skeptic kind of has it's a tricky it's a

549
00:23:26,810 --> 00:23:24,150
tricky line to tread because in my

550
00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:26,820
opinion if we were a bit more I mean the

551
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:29,070
reporters reporting science are often

552
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:31,050
not trained in science they're not

553
00:23:34,820 --> 00:23:32,850
actively trying to misrepresent

554
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:34,830
scientists they're just trying to do the

555
00:23:38,570 --> 00:23:36,930
best they can do but sometimes we can

556
00:23:41,030 --> 00:23:38,580
come out and be a bit too vitriolic and

557
00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:41,040
then the news departments will respond

558
00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:43,080
by going well this this is just not

559
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:44,520
popular this is creating too much

560
00:23:49,130 --> 00:23:46,410
controversy let's let's not do that

561
00:23:51,230 --> 00:23:49,140
again I think you know I personally feel

562
00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:51,240
and I would you know advocate this

563
00:23:54,050 --> 00:23:52,350
position to kind of be a bit more

564
00:23:55,580 --> 00:23:54,060
accepting or a softer approach to

565
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:55,590
criticizing bad journalism and bad

566
00:23:59,350 --> 00:23:57,210
science journalism you know if we can

567
00:24:01,700 --> 00:23:59,360
get more of it in there and then kind of

568
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:01,710
be more accepting of more of it being

569
00:24:05,450 --> 00:24:03,570
that even if it's not great we can deal

570
00:24:07,460 --> 00:24:05,460
with the quality problem six months from

571
00:24:10,550 --> 00:24:07,470
now a year from now at some point down

572
00:24:13,670 --> 00:24:10,560
the track when we've kind of really got

573
00:24:17,180 --> 00:24:13,680
a norm happening again I think it so

574
00:24:19,670 --> 00:24:17,190
it's a very worthwhile strategy and it's

575
00:24:22,100 --> 00:24:19,680
of course we should be setting how can

576
00:24:24,860 --> 00:24:22,110
people help what's the story now for the

577
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:24,870
rest of us how can we really help well

578
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:26,610
you know it's we've got a petition going

579
00:24:29,630 --> 00:24:28,410
it's on change.org we've actually just

580
00:24:31,670 --> 00:24:29,640
made the front page because we've been

581
00:24:33,140 --> 00:24:31,680
so popular in the last four days we've

582
00:24:35,210 --> 00:24:33,150
got over eleven hundred signatures and

583
00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:35,220
they're coming in all the time so you

584
00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:37,320
can find us a change.org or if it's easy

585
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:40,710
to remember and in science com the links

586
00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:42,240
are there our petition statement there

587
00:24:46,370 --> 00:24:44,580
is our open letter to triple j is there

588
00:24:47,870 --> 00:24:46,380
and of course we're on twitter and

589
00:24:49,730 --> 00:24:47,880
facebook and as you know some lively

590
00:24:52,130 --> 00:24:49,740
discussions happening in those places as

591
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:52,140
well that's the message folks also if

592
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:54,690
you go to the skeptic zone homepage ww

593
00:25:00,980 --> 00:24:57,600
skeptics on TV in the show notes for

594
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:00,990
this episode we'll have links to this

595
00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:03,570
petition I've signed it myself a couple

596
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:05,310
of days ago and have been publicizing it

597
00:25:11,060 --> 00:25:08,730
so I hope in some small way the skeptic

598
00:25:14,110 --> 00:25:11,070
zone has already helped to get some

599
00:25:17,690 --> 00:25:14,120
attention to this website absolutely and

600
00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:17,700
well we will check up with you check in

601
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:20,070
with you as it were down the track and

602
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:21,930
see how this petitions going and see

603
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:23,410
what progress has been made

604
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:25,360
I look forward to everything Rowan

605
00:25:29,370 --> 00:25:27,130
thanks again for your time and folks

606
00:25:39,930 --> 00:25:29,380
there's the message get more science out

607
00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:39,940
there in the media morning's keto

608
00:25:46,050 --> 00:25:43,780
potties or afternoon evening night order

609
00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:46,060
we small hours and regardless of when

610
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:48,790
you're listening hello dr. Willis from

611
00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:50,650
the Royal Institution of Australia here

612
00:25:54,810 --> 00:25:53,110
with the final of three podcast covering

613
00:25:57,570 --> 00:25:54,820
the production break of a week in

614
00:26:00,180 --> 00:25:57,580
science that vodcast will be back next

615
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:00,190
week but what's been happening this week

616
00:26:05,610 --> 00:26:02,770
in the wonderful world of science well

617
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:05,620
lots let's start with a confronting

618
00:26:10,050 --> 00:26:07,510
commentary that appeared in nature this

619
00:26:12,270 --> 00:26:10,060
week that claims the global cost of a

620
00:26:15,860 --> 00:26:12,280
warming Arctic could be around the same

621
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:15,870
size as the total global economy for

622
00:26:21,870 --> 00:26:19,450
2012 written by several international

623
00:26:23,550 --> 00:26:21,880
experts the piece claims that while most

624
00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:23,560
discussions about the economic

625
00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:26,080
implications of a warming Arctic focus

626
00:26:30,030 --> 00:26:27,790
on the benefits to the region such as

627
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:30,040
increased oil and gas drilling and the

628
00:26:34,020 --> 00:26:31,930
opening up of new shipping routes other

629
00:26:36,990 --> 00:26:34,030
effects such as the melting of

630
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:37,000
permafrost will extract a heavy toll on

631
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:39,330
the planetary hip pocket they're talking

632
00:26:46,140 --> 00:26:44,080
60 trillion dollars folks and also some

633
00:26:49,380 --> 00:26:46,150
disappointing news about the potential

634
00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:49,390
use of a particular kind of stem cell us

635
00:26:52,770 --> 00:26:50,710
scientists are questioning the

636
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:52,780
usefulness of what are known as very

637
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:56,320
small embryonic-like stem cells or vs

638
00:27:01,650 --> 00:26:59,200
ALS these cells can be isolated from

639
00:27:03,750 --> 00:27:01,660
blood or bone marrow rather than from

640
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:03,760
embryos and thus circumventing some

641
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:05,890
tricky ethical questions and they're

642
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:08,170
thought to be an alternative source of

643
00:27:13,020 --> 00:27:10,810
stem cells for medicine however this

644
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:13,030
research found they're not capable of

645
00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:15,370
turning into different cell types and

646
00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:17,860
thus will not be useful in regenerative

647
00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:21,760
medicine are you like me carrying a bit

648
00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:23,590
more weight than you ought to be then

649
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:25,720
it's probably not a good idea for me to

650
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:28,210
be reminding you a US study has shown

651
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:30,970
that weight discrimination may in fact

652
00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:33,130
increase the risk of becoming obese

653
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:35,800
rather than motivating individuals to

654
00:27:39,299 --> 00:27:37,210
lose weight sick

655
00:27:43,289 --> 00:27:39,309
thousand people were involved in the

656
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:43,299
study in 2006 and 2010 those who

657
00:27:49,310 --> 00:27:45,570
experienced weight discrimination in

658
00:27:52,620 --> 00:27:49,320
2006 were more likely to remain obese in

659
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:52,630
2010 than those who hadn't and now to

660
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:55,690
bust two myths from nature firstly

661
00:28:00,029 --> 00:27:57,760
cheetahs don't abandon their humps

662
00:28:02,130 --> 00:28:00,039
because they become overheated South

663
00:28:04,529 --> 00:28:02,140
African researchers measured wild

664
00:28:06,299 --> 00:28:04,539
cheetahs whereas previous studies only

665
00:28:08,430 --> 00:28:06,309
looked at captive animals and found

666
00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:08,440
their body temperatures increased only

667
00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:11,350
after the hunt ends and only if they

668
00:28:16,139 --> 00:28:13,870
were successful they also give up about

669
00:28:18,180 --> 00:28:16,149
sixty percent of their chasers the

670
00:28:20,460 --> 00:28:18,190
second myth surrounds that old favorite

671
00:28:23,549 --> 00:28:20,470
of the skeptics the effects or lack

672
00:28:25,980 --> 00:28:23,559
thereof of the moon on people's behavior

673
00:28:28,529 --> 00:28:25,990
a Swiss study found that a bad night's

674
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:28,539
sleep could be due to the geophysical

675
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:30,850
rhythms of the moon study participants

676
00:28:35,010 --> 00:28:33,010
found they had poor asleep and

677
00:28:37,980 --> 00:28:35,020
diminished levels of the sleep hormone

678
00:28:40,049 --> 00:28:37,990
melatonin during a full moon which the

679
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:40,059
authors say is the first reliable

680
00:28:44,519 --> 00:28:41,890
evidence that a lunar rhythm can

681
00:28:46,710 --> 00:28:44,529
modulate sleep structures in humans and

682
00:28:48,810 --> 00:28:46,720
let's finish off with a couple of future

683
00:28:51,630 --> 00:28:48,820
events that may be of interest to you if

684
00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:51,640
you are interested in questions nuclear

685
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:53,830
particularly with the future of power

686
00:28:58,260 --> 00:28:56,320
generation in Australia then check out

687
00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:58,270
the traveling Roadshow of nuclear

688
00:29:02,850 --> 00:29:00,640
experts touring the country in August at

689
00:29:04,649 --> 00:29:02,860
see the Australian Academy of

690
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:04,659
technological sciences and engineering

691
00:29:10,139 --> 00:29:07,690
is featuring a panel discussion at their

692
00:29:12,149 --> 00:29:10,149
annual conference and then members of

693
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:12,159
that panel will be visiting major cities

694
00:29:19,919 --> 00:29:14,890
to hold further discussions check the at

695
00:29:22,169 --> 00:29:19,929
see that's 80 s website for details for

696
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:22,179
those of you with a more creative bent

697
00:29:27,779 --> 00:29:25,210
arias will be running our annual psycho

698
00:29:29,940 --> 00:29:27,789
competition as part of our contribution

699
00:29:33,299 --> 00:29:29,950
to national science week based on the

700
00:29:35,370 --> 00:29:33,309
Japanese haiku poetry form psychos have

701
00:29:37,289 --> 00:29:35,380
a science theme and this year in

702
00:29:39,450 --> 00:29:37,299
recognition of the international year

703
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:39,460
statistics and the International Year of

704
00:29:44,299 --> 00:29:41,919
mathematics of planet Earth we want you

705
00:29:47,129 --> 00:29:44,309
to create a suitably statistically

706
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:47,139
mathematical global kind of psycho

707
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:50,410
here's my entry when a bell curve

708
00:29:57,180 --> 00:29:54,370
ohs a normal distribution piece around

709
00:29:59,850 --> 00:29:57,190
the mean I know I know I've missed my

710
00:30:01,860 --> 00:29:59,860
vocation but don't you miss yours and

711
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:01,870
find out more about our psycho

712
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:07,120
competition at RI aus org dot a you we

713
00:30:11,250 --> 00:30:09,370
can also find more science news and more

714
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:11,260
details on the store is presented here

715
00:30:17,310 --> 00:30:14,410
that's it from me next week back to

716
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:17,320
regular programming dr. Willis signing

717
00:30:25,260 --> 00:30:23,110
off hi I'm Finn and I'm Rebecca and

718
00:30:26,970 --> 00:30:25,270
where the skipper Kwan's skipper Collins

719
00:30:28,380 --> 00:30:26,980
is an Irish podcast by the Dublin

720
00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:28,390
skeptics society it takes a

721
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:30,040
conversational reverent look at science

722
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:31,810
news and skeptical topics from an Irish

723
00:30:38,340 --> 00:30:35,290
perspective you can find us at WWDC

724
00:30:38,340 --> 00:30:38,350
afrikaans calm

725
00:30:55,470 --> 00:30:53,820
oh wow that's the wall of fame it's

726
00:30:57,169 --> 00:30:55,480
quite who do we have here we have got

727
00:30:59,760 --> 00:30:57,179
all these stars and celebrities

728
00:31:01,590 --> 00:30:59,770
autographed pictures on the wall here at

729
00:31:03,930 --> 00:31:01,600
this restaurant in Los Angeles were

730
00:31:05,789 --> 00:31:03,940
having dinner with Ben Redford hello Ben

731
00:31:07,020 --> 00:31:05,799
hello there Richard how are you I'm

732
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:07,030
doing really well I've had a great time

733
00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:09,370
here with the members of the iig the

734
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:11,080
local skeptical group we've had a big

735
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:12,850
Italian dinner and we're just wandering

736
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:15,610
down the wall of fame here because this

737
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:17,830
is Hollywood isn't it it is it's Italian

738
00:31:21,870 --> 00:31:19,929
with their stars everywhere I was on the

739
00:31:24,299 --> 00:31:21,880
way in the door I stepped over a gold

740
00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:24,309
bar I'm pretty sure was pure solid gold

741
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:25,870
because this is Hollywood it was

742
00:31:30,930 --> 00:31:28,330
remarkable you might be right anyway

743
00:31:33,299 --> 00:31:30,940
there's lots of lots of faces on the

744
00:31:35,850 --> 00:31:33,309
wall here photographs here Oh what Frank

745
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:35,860
Sinatra keep kidding me really I know

746
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:38,530
that is Frank Sinatra there's the to be

747
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:40,090
honest most people here people I've

748
00:31:44,430 --> 00:31:42,250
never ever ever heard it you know what

749
00:31:46,399 --> 00:31:44,440
you're right I got really great many

750
00:31:49,770 --> 00:31:46,409
people put still the wall smothered with

751
00:31:52,529 --> 00:31:49,780
celebrity photographs now been what if

752
00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:52,539
some of your latest are skeptical

753
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:55,150
investigation / adventures adventurous

754
00:31:59,250 --> 00:31:57,370
adventures well the most recent thing

755
00:32:01,470 --> 00:31:59,260
I've done was I did an article for

756
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:01,480
skeptical inquire magazine on plagiarism

757
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:04,510
in in a vampire encyclopedia by

758
00:32:10,110 --> 00:32:07,360
harpercollins lady jury subpoena vampire

759
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:10,120
encyclopedia yes yes yes so it always

760
00:32:13,860 --> 00:32:12,490
sounds like the windup project hey thank

761
00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:13,870
you for coming Thank you Thank You

762
00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:17,320
Rachel my pleasure I others yeah so did

763
00:32:22,350 --> 00:32:20,350
the the I was doing some research and I

764
00:32:26,130 --> 00:32:22,360
discovered some rampant plagiarism in

765
00:32:28,980 --> 00:32:26,140
the reference book by a multiple-time

766
00:32:31,110 --> 00:32:28,990
author of HarperCollins the world's

767
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:31,120
biggest publisher in the contacted them

768
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:32,890
and I said you know you should be aware

769
00:32:37,950 --> 00:32:34,510
that that most of this book was written

770
00:32:39,450 --> 00:32:37,960
by other people hmm so that's my most

771
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:39,460
recent thing I've I never gotten very

772
00:32:44,220 --> 00:32:41,710
good response from from readers because

773
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:44,230
it's very um it's not just sort of

774
00:32:48,150 --> 00:32:46,210
another Bigfoot another

775
00:32:51,180 --> 00:32:48,160
ghost story it's it's sort of like more

776
00:32:53,310 --> 00:32:51,190
more consumer reports ik investigative

777
00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:53,320
journalism stuff yeah yeah so yeah so

778
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:54,910
I'm working on that and then I've got

779
00:33:00,200 --> 00:32:57,250
another book coming out whew I have it's

780
00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:00,210
uh it's called mysterious new mexico

781
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:03,190
mysterious New Mexico Nevada New Mexico

782
00:33:07,170 --> 00:33:04,930
well I live there you should come on

783
00:33:08,490 --> 00:33:07,180
since you live there it's quite nice the

784
00:33:10,980 --> 00:33:08,500
deserts and all sorts of things like

785
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:10,990
that yeah and yeah because it'll be my

786
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:13,690
seventh book Wow yeah it would be my

787
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:16,450
seventh book and basically I realized

788
00:33:20,730 --> 00:33:18,730
that I had done investigations in a lot

789
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:20,740
of parts of the world Europe South

790
00:33:26,370 --> 00:33:23,770
America elsewhere but I hadn't really

791
00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:26,380
done too many it or written them up in

792
00:33:30,030 --> 00:33:28,150
my backyard in New Mexico and so I

793
00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:30,040
figured why not I mean New Mexico's a

794
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:31,990
weird place I live there that'll tell

795
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:34,090
you something um where they make

796
00:33:38,690 --> 00:33:36,490
Breaking Bad that is that's exactly

797
00:33:41,910 --> 00:33:38,700
that's exactly what you would regret yes

798
00:33:44,730 --> 00:33:41,920
so yeah so so in addition we have you

799
00:33:46,830 --> 00:33:44,740
know monsters and miracles and weird

800
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:46,840
things like that and so lots of ghost

801
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:49,600
stories so that'll be coming out next

802
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:51,490
year from the University of New Mexico

803
00:33:57,420 --> 00:33:54,720
press excellent and you still get

804
00:34:00,270 --> 00:33:57,430
feedback reaction from the chupacabra I

805
00:34:01,980 --> 00:34:00,280
do actually uh yeah it's you know the

806
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:01,990
chupacabra book I did came out i think

807
00:34:07,770 --> 00:34:05,050
in twenty ten or so to chasing chuka

808
00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:07,780
cover tracking to portray tracking sorry

809
00:34:11,820 --> 00:34:09,910
tracking tracking chupacabra yeah you

810
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:11,830
know it's interesting that's that sort

811
00:34:15,860 --> 00:34:13,450
of you know it's probably one of my

812
00:34:18,450 --> 00:34:15,870
highest profile investigations so far

813
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:18,460
because you just so widely known it's

814
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:20,610
you know it's known all around the world

815
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:23,050
and it was funny the other day I was

816
00:34:26,820 --> 00:34:25,330
thinking about about you when someone

817
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:26,830
writes my obituary when they gonna be

818
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:29,530
talking about and someone you know when

819
00:34:34,350 --> 00:34:31,690
they say among my accomplishments

820
00:34:36,180 --> 00:34:34,360
however few or many it is it's going to

821
00:34:38,790 --> 00:34:36,190
be and by the way he solved this mystery

822
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:38,800
of this weird vampire beast chupacabra

823
00:34:42,090 --> 00:34:40,450
yeah yeah I just sort of interesting

824
00:34:43,770 --> 00:34:42,100
just sort of and I'm okay I mean I'm

825
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:43,780
happy with that I guess it just sort of

826
00:34:47,220 --> 00:34:46,090
an unusual things that was uh it was

827
00:34:48,690 --> 00:34:47,230
kind of you know

828
00:34:50,669 --> 00:34:48,700
think on my gravestone this is gonna be

829
00:34:53,849 --> 00:34:50,679
chiseled into power balance bracelet you

830
00:34:56,340 --> 00:34:53,859
oh yeah the amazing work on the power

831
00:34:58,020 --> 00:34:56,350
balance yeah and yeah it's good fun I'm

832
00:34:59,490 --> 00:34:58,030
wearing three of them as we speak from

833
00:35:01,320 --> 00:34:59,500
the amazing meeting you know it's good

834
00:35:02,940 --> 00:35:01,330
fun yeah yeah yeah yeah oh yeah I mean

835
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:02,950
you've you've done so much i mean this

836
00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:04,330
this is the problem with trying to you

837
00:35:07,290 --> 00:35:05,800
know trying to keep what does Richard

838
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:07,300
Saunders do it's like what doesn't he do

839
00:35:12,060 --> 00:35:10,210
you know so there's a that's one of the

840
00:35:13,950 --> 00:35:12,070
great things is that you're early a

841
00:35:15,450 --> 00:35:13,960
jack-of-all-trades there's someone well

842
00:35:18,930 --> 00:35:15,460
we all have to be done waiting to or

843
00:35:21,300 --> 00:35:18,940
respect yeah I mean skeptics like I mean

844
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:21,310
we should specialize I guess but there's

845
00:35:26,130 --> 00:35:24,310
there is so much to skepticism isn't

846
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:26,140
there may be on the Australian skeptics

847
00:35:31,260 --> 00:35:29,050
website I remember this a.m page I think

848
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:31,270
it's still there which is an a to Zed

849
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:34,090
this starts with abracadabra and ends

850
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:36,250
with zombies and everything in between

851
00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:38,290
you know it's ridiculously a number of

852
00:35:42,780 --> 00:35:41,020
topics in skepticism right yeah there's

853
00:35:43,890 --> 00:35:42,790
they're such fertile ground I mean

854
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:43,900
that's the thing is is that there's

855
00:35:48,420 --> 00:35:46,570
almost no area of human interest earned

856
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:48,430
ever that doesn't have some woowoo

857
00:35:56,670 --> 00:35:51,520
that's true you know it with psychology

858
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:56,680
physics geography geology medicine take

859
00:36:00,300 --> 00:35:57,850
your quick I mean there there's really

860
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:00,310
nothing that isn't contaminated in some

861
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:03,760
way by pseudoscience or and in

862
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:05,410
some ways that's it's the sort of an

863
00:36:08,190 --> 00:36:06,850
overwhelming job because there's so much

864
00:36:09,630 --> 00:36:08,200
out there but that's what that's what

865
00:36:11,250 --> 00:36:09,640
makes it challenging that's what makes

866
00:36:13,140 --> 00:36:11,260
it fun you would you believe it that

867
00:36:14,940 --> 00:36:13,150
brian danny is making faces at us

868
00:36:17,609 --> 00:36:14,950
through the the look at look of this

869
00:36:20,250 --> 00:36:17,619
he's doing puppy dog face oh so adorable

870
00:36:22,620 --> 00:36:20,260
come on then let him in let it does i

871
00:36:24,780 --> 00:36:22,630
want to come on come on this aroma

872
00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:24,790
listen live interview folks this is what

873
00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:27,670
happens here in kind is it is that brian

874
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:29,740
dunning he's looking G Brian a I don't I

875
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:31,210
don't see that weird so you know any of

876
00:36:34,830 --> 00:36:32,710
these any of these celebrities on the

877
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:34,840
wall yeah pop from Frank Sinatra oh well

878
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:37,090
other than him well I of course I of

879
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:38,770
course I recognize my own picture up

880
00:36:47,020 --> 00:36:45,070
Michael Jackson the novellas there's

881
00:36:48,910 --> 00:36:47,030
there's Steve novella it was genno how

882
00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:48,920
about that but Steve novella I didn't

883
00:36:53,350 --> 00:36:50,960
see that I think there's a I think

884
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:53,360
there's loni anderson very nice there's

885
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:55,490
not ever there something there's Brian

886
00:36:59,470 --> 00:36:57,290
Dunning dressed up as Lonnie Andrews

887
00:37:01,780 --> 00:36:59,480
that's what it is I thought I recognized

888
00:37:05,590 --> 00:37:01,790
that full lipstick that's right yeah

889
00:37:07,090 --> 00:37:05,600
yeah that's a that's an event and I was

890
00:37:08,890 --> 00:37:07,100
just discussing how many topics there

891
00:37:10,690 --> 00:37:08,900
are in skepticism everything from a to

892
00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:10,700
Zed right yeah I think there's I think

893
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:13,250
there's up to about 35 by now at least

894
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:17,450
yeah at least 85 things it's kids it's

895
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:19,250
I've had to do 10 episodes on every

896
00:37:27,070 --> 00:37:22,310
subject just to you you had to just

897
00:37:28,810 --> 00:37:27,080
repeat them yes and each time I just

898
00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:28,820
kind of juice it up a little AB some

899
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:30,140
spice going to come up with some

900
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:31,970
creative additions to the story keep the

901
00:37:36,070 --> 00:37:33,770
legend growing you know that's a diff

902
00:37:38,260 --> 00:37:36,080
you take out a few facts throw in some

903
00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:38,270
it's all good and I found I

904
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:39,740
found a great new wealth and just

905
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:43,010
inventing old newspaper articles haha

906
00:37:48,940 --> 00:37:45,890
find an old newspaper claimed that the

907
00:37:50,740 --> 00:37:48,950
November 1913 issue had a particular

908
00:37:52,540 --> 00:37:50,750
article if that you can give the right

909
00:37:54,130 --> 00:37:52,550
or a name yeah it's amazing and you can

910
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:54,140
you can cite anything you know what

911
00:37:57,850 --> 00:37:55,970
happens in been read if it gets us and

912
00:37:59,440 --> 00:37:57,860
thinks they're real you could have to

913
00:38:01,780 --> 00:37:59,450
rewrite your books but I've wasted so

914
00:38:04,750 --> 00:38:01,790
much time tracking down Brian's putting

915
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:04,760
the stories from 1930 newspaper well so

916
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:06,290
I ask you yes he quoted here and I like

917
00:38:10,630 --> 00:38:07,970
hold on there was no Charleston observer

918
00:38:12,820 --> 00:38:10,640
have you done Chupacabra unknown skip

919
00:38:15,310 --> 00:38:12,830
toyed no I'm that's something that I

920
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:15,320
don't think has been really merited a

921
00:38:20,770 --> 00:38:19,250
skeptical treatment so I haven't to know

922
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:20,780
there's a two-episode I'm gonna get

923
00:38:23,860 --> 00:38:22,130
kicked in the night and I haven't done

924
00:38:25,810 --> 00:38:23,870
too Picabo obviously because that's been

925
00:38:27,940 --> 00:38:25,820
specialty and I haven't done the moon

926
00:38:30,670 --> 00:38:27,950
hoax because that's Phil Plait special

927
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:30,680
to him I think eventually I'm just going

928
00:38:34,510 --> 00:38:32,450
to you do kind of watered-down episodes

929
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:34,520
you could I don't with with you know I

930
00:38:39,730 --> 00:38:37,970
mean I yes it is Ben's done that and

931
00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:39,740
Phil's done the moon hoax but there is

932
00:38:43,930 --> 00:38:41,630
still topics and colored it's nothing

933
00:38:45,970 --> 00:38:43,940
aspects to it or you could do one just

934
00:38:48,070 --> 00:38:45,980
about Ben

935
00:38:49,780 --> 00:38:48,080
what can I say well the reason I

936
00:38:51,820 --> 00:38:49,790
actually the reason I mentioned the fake

937
00:38:53,980 --> 00:38:51,830
newspaper articles is because that was

938
00:38:55,900 --> 00:38:53,990
what I ran into this week when I was

939
00:38:57,849 --> 00:38:55,910
researching the currents cup-tied I

940
00:39:01,330 --> 00:38:57,859
won't say the name of the author but

941
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:01,340
there was a 1950s author who wrote he

942
00:39:05,820 --> 00:39:03,410
basically made up a short story as a

943
00:39:08,980 --> 00:39:05,830
campfire tale and then in the 70s

944
00:39:10,810 --> 00:39:08,990
another author went back and tried to

945
00:39:13,420 --> 00:39:10,820
turn that into a real thing and he

946
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:13,430
invented newspaper articles from the

947
00:39:19,330 --> 00:39:17,090
early 1900's to support it and Bailey

948
00:39:21,700 --> 00:39:19,340
shall converted a campfire story into a

949
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:21,710
hole what's become sort of an urban

950
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:23,690
legend oh my god I have to read this

951
00:39:30,790 --> 00:39:25,970
core can i find it this is his skipped

952
00:39:32,230 --> 00:39:30,800
or eise kept ID com you see I I set that

953
00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:32,240
up those great oh you said that out yeah

954
00:39:35,170 --> 00:39:33,920
did I miss that but that's really that

955
00:39:37,570 --> 00:39:35,180
was very clever think that was very

956
00:39:39,220 --> 00:39:37,580
clever so um yeah I'm in the presence of

957
00:39:41,770 --> 00:39:39,230
some guys who were both written books I

958
00:39:43,420 --> 00:39:41,780
speak fact we both have is nice right so

959
00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:43,430
it was wrong reading books but you guys

960
00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:44,630
certainly have written books more

961
00:39:48,849 --> 00:39:46,880
recently than I have for books on skip

962
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:48,859
down the minutes for yes I can't say I

963
00:39:53,170 --> 00:39:50,510
wrote them I kind of copy and pasted

964
00:39:55,690 --> 00:39:53,180
them really from your own work I guess

965
00:39:57,700 --> 00:39:55,700
you did write for there's actually six

966
00:39:59,650 --> 00:39:57,710
of them that are done but only four of

967
00:40:02,620 --> 00:39:59,660
them have made it as far as the

968
00:40:04,930 --> 00:40:02,630
formatting stage but yes tells me seven

969
00:40:07,330 --> 00:40:04,940
I've written seven books and actually a

970
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:07,340
not to brag but I was looking at it oh

971
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:09,650
right well if you include books that I

972
00:40:15,870 --> 00:40:12,170
have have either written or contributed

973
00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:15,880
chapters to or co-authored it's a few 20

974
00:40:19,810 --> 00:40:18,470
I'm just I'm just I'm just just saying

975
00:40:22,210 --> 00:40:19,820
I'm just saying I understand just what I

976
00:40:24,099 --> 00:40:22,220
yeah yeah just just in passing well just

977
00:40:26,980 --> 00:40:24,109
you know it's in some cases you know

978
00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:26,990
just a little minor chapter usually

979
00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:30,710
talking about brian is it's like the

980
00:40:35,950 --> 00:40:34,220
first the first real skeptical book that

981
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:35,960
i bought was at the first tam that i

982
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:38,570
went to and that was your Lake Monsters

983
00:40:43,450 --> 00:40:41,510
book well by Ben Radford and joe nickell

984
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:43,460
right well then I use that on as

985
00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:44,930
reference on a couple of episodes I

986
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:46,220
think well thank you glad you liked it

987
00:40:52,510 --> 00:40:48,970
so what's what would be the ideal

988
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:52,520
adventure / mystery / investigation for

989
00:40:56,050 --> 00:40:54,410
you what if someone came and gave you a

990
00:40:58,450 --> 00:40:56,060
blank check and said please investigate

991
00:40:58,750 --> 00:40:58,460
the mystery of your choice what would it

992
00:41:02,200 --> 00:40:58,760
be

993
00:41:03,250 --> 00:41:02,210
mmm you know up until very recently my

994
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:03,260
answer would have been the beasts of

995
00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:05,450
Javad on which is the this this

996
00:41:11,620 --> 00:41:08,710
mysterious thing that that killed

997
00:41:15,370 --> 00:41:11,630
peasants in seventeen hundreds france

998
00:41:19,540 --> 00:41:15,380
southern france and it was very strange

999
00:41:21,730 --> 00:41:19,550
case Brian knows about it that for many

1000
00:41:25,210 --> 00:41:21,740
years that was my that was my sort of

1001
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:25,220
wish list investigation unfortunately or

1002
00:41:31,900 --> 00:41:28,370
rather fortunately before I could get to

1003
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:31,910
it another author j smith i believe is

1004
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:33,680
his name wrote an excellent what i

1005
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:34,970
considered be the definitive book

1006
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:37,970
solving that mystery yeah the the book

1007
00:41:43,150 --> 00:41:39,530
is called the monsters of the vivid on

1008
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:43,160
and it's a brilliant book I just very

1009
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:44,690
well done well researched and he

1010
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:48,530
basically solved the mystery and so we

1011
00:41:51,610 --> 00:41:50,090
actually interviewed him on a monster

1012
00:41:52,990 --> 00:41:51,620
talk show and I was kind of please could

1013
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:53,000
you actually read my super copper book

1014
00:41:57,340 --> 00:41:55,040
this phase like I read your book I read

1015
00:41:59,160 --> 00:41:57,350
your book dude this is cool does a lot

1016
00:42:02,500 --> 00:41:59,170
of visual tickled n Avenue has been

1017
00:42:07,570 --> 00:42:02,510
closed off yes yes oh yeah also be

1018
00:42:09,550 --> 00:42:07,580
sickening the second one would be ah you

1019
00:42:13,930 --> 00:42:09,560
know there's so many great mysteries out

1020
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:13,940
there oh you know God um lost

1021
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:17,090
civilizations yeah I mean maybe I'm

1022
00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:18,410
trying to think is something that you

1023
00:42:21,370 --> 00:42:19,760
know I try to do mysteries that haven't

1024
00:42:23,350 --> 00:42:21,380
been done to death you know that's

1025
00:42:24,910 --> 00:42:23,360
pretty tough well it is you sort of cope

1026
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:24,920
with new stuff because I was just

1027
00:42:32,860 --> 00:42:30,170
retreading the same old yeah um to

1028
00:42:34,990 --> 00:42:32,870
be honest you know so here's your chance

1029
00:42:37,180 --> 00:42:35,000
to write to Ben Radford yeah give me a

1030
00:42:38,650 --> 00:42:37,190
suggestion we didn't to suggestion yeah

1031
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:38,660
I you know there there's this there's

1032
00:42:44,170 --> 00:42:40,610
something you probably I would tackle

1033
00:42:46,060 --> 00:42:44,180
some of the old ghost photos Blake Smith

1034
00:42:48,130 --> 00:42:46,070
and I have done that on occasion we'll

1035
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:48,140
tackle some classic ghost photos Blake

1036
00:42:51,850 --> 00:42:49,910
to the excellent piece on what's the

1037
00:42:53,710 --> 00:42:51,860
ones of the two faces and the in the in

1038
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:53,720
the ocean yeah yeah that you think yeah

1039
00:42:58,030 --> 00:42:56,240
okay I'm sure listen is dead that one

1040
00:42:59,860 --> 00:42:58,040
too yeah yeah I know that was sailors

1041
00:43:01,300 --> 00:42:59,870
lost to Jay is our yeah and he did a

1042
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:01,310
great job on that one and he and I have

1043
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:02,330
collaborate on a couple other ones so

1044
00:43:06,420 --> 00:43:04,490
probably the answer your question is I

1045
00:43:09,740 --> 00:43:06,430
would go back to look at some of the

1046
00:43:12,170 --> 00:43:09,750
some of the unsolved

1047
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:12,180
classic ghost photographs raynham hall

1048
00:43:15,860 --> 00:43:14,880
things like that I mean there's been not

1049
00:43:17,420 --> 00:43:15,870
that they're told you unsolved there's

1050
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:17,430
been explanations but sometimes it's

1051
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:18,960
good sort of take it a fresh pair of

1052
00:43:25,370 --> 00:43:22,050
eyes if you had both of you sow the

1053
00:43:28,340 --> 00:43:25,380
event if you had a time machine and the

1054
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:28,350
idea was that you could go back and be

1055
00:43:33,620 --> 00:43:31,680
like the Invisible holograph not

1056
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:33,630
interfering but a witness to an event in

1057
00:43:40,490 --> 00:43:37,280
history what would you like to see I

1058
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:40,500
would like to see uh would it be a

1059
00:43:44,830 --> 00:43:42,210
mystery would it be a famous historical

1060
00:43:47,470 --> 00:43:44,840
I would like to see Sir Richard Burton

1061
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:47,480
looking for the source of the Nile hmm

1062
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:49,530
searching for the Nile add the source of

1063
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:51,210
the Nile yeah the sources that I've

1064
00:43:57,410 --> 00:43:54,090
always been a big admirer of some of the

1065
00:43:59,240 --> 00:43:57,420
Victorian era explorers and Sir Richard

1066
00:44:02,630 --> 00:43:59,250
Burton has always been a personal hero

1067
00:44:04,010 --> 00:44:02,640
of mine and just the dig this actually

1068
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:04,020
did it with joy hanning speke and all

1069
00:44:10,250 --> 00:44:06,690
that so I thought you'd say I'd want to

1070
00:44:12,260 --> 00:44:10,260
be there on the grassy in the hole no no

1071
00:44:14,810 --> 00:44:12,270
you know honestly I think it all ties in

1072
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:14,820
with me because I the the common thread

1073
00:44:19,010 --> 00:44:17,010
to me is exploration and the gaining of

1074
00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:19,020
knowledge and so whether it's like a

1075
00:44:23,540 --> 00:44:22,200
conspiracy thing or just you learning

1076
00:44:25,850 --> 00:44:23,550
something that nobody's figured out

1077
00:44:27,620 --> 00:44:25,860
before so that's that's probably what I

1078
00:44:28,850 --> 00:44:27,630
would do what about you mr. Dunning well

1079
00:44:30,530 --> 00:44:28,860
you know it's interesting you mentioned

1080
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:30,540
the grassy knoll because you know you

1081
00:44:34,580 --> 00:44:32,880
kind of jumped to thinking what are some

1082
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:34,590
of these great sort of skeptical

1083
00:44:39,110 --> 00:44:36,570
mysteries yeah yeah yeah skeptical

1084
00:44:40,730 --> 00:44:39,120
topics and the thing is that nothing

1085
00:44:42,020 --> 00:44:40,740
really happened at anything it's like if

1086
00:44:43,610 --> 00:44:42,030
you go to a hotel that's supposed to be

1087
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:43,620
haunted with your video camera what are

1088
00:44:48,590 --> 00:44:46,170
you gonna get video nothing yeah so I i

1089
00:44:49,940 --> 00:44:48,600
think what what's something that's

1090
00:44:52,850 --> 00:44:49,950
always fascinated me that i know is a

1091
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:52,860
real event that i'd like to see was in

1092
00:44:57,890 --> 00:44:56,160
the very early days of the formation of

1093
00:44:59,570 --> 00:44:57,900
the earth and i think we're talking

1094
00:45:03,560 --> 00:44:59,580
about somewhere about halfway through

1095
00:45:06,380 --> 00:45:03,570
its history when the tides were at their

1096
00:45:09,110 --> 00:45:06,390
highest when the moon was at its closest

1097
00:45:11,630 --> 00:45:09,120
orbiting the fastest yeah and we had

1098
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:11,640
oceans and the tides were the highest

1099
00:45:16,580 --> 00:45:14,400
that they've ever been and I've heard

1100
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:16,590
varying reports that these tides might

1101
00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:17,910
have been in the hundreds of feet

1102
00:45:22,089 --> 00:45:20,910
possibly even thousands of feet huge

1103
00:45:24,130 --> 00:45:22,099
walls of white

1104
00:45:27,130 --> 00:45:24,140
water crashing across continents and

1105
00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:27,140
things and I'd like to see whatever the

1106
00:45:32,710 --> 00:45:29,960
height of that actually was and see what

1107
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,720
that actually looked like for real well

1108
00:45:35,729 --> 00:45:34,160
if Brian's gonna come with that good

1109
00:45:38,829 --> 00:45:35,739
answer then I'm going to change mine

1110
00:45:40,539 --> 00:45:38,839
mine Tom gusta how about his business no

1111
00:45:43,479 --> 00:45:40,549
no I know I know I would want to be

1112
00:45:47,049 --> 00:45:43,489
there for the 1967 patterson-gimlin we

1113
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:47,059
put film yeah I want to be there when

1114
00:45:51,759 --> 00:45:50,089
Roger Patterson Bob Gimlin get off their

1115
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:51,769
get off their horses in bluff creek

1116
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:54,410
california of the suit and i just want

1117
00:45:58,690 --> 00:45:55,970
to sit there in the back and say all

1118
00:46:00,910 --> 00:45:58,700
right let's see who's in the suit what

1119
00:46:03,339 --> 00:46:00,920
does he do to that would be my answer is

1120
00:46:07,539 --> 00:46:03,349
the out why do I want to be there for

1121
00:46:09,519 --> 00:46:07,549
the 1967 patterson-gimlin Bigfoot film

1122
00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:09,529
just because it's so it's so

1123
00:46:14,529 --> 00:46:12,529
controversial and heels to the eating to

1124
00:46:17,410 --> 00:46:14,539
this day and it's I mean it's pretty

1125
00:46:19,420 --> 00:46:17,420
clearly a hoax but but it's one of the

1126
00:46:20,859 --> 00:46:19,430
things for nailing the conclusive

1127
00:46:23,079 --> 00:46:20,869
evidence for it it's so difficult

1128
00:46:25,089 --> 00:46:23,089
because it's been so long and and so I

1129
00:46:26,380 --> 00:46:25,099
out that's that would be my other answer

1130
00:46:28,479 --> 00:46:26,390
would be I don't want to be there just

1131
00:46:31,150 --> 00:46:28,489
to just to sit back and just see this

1132
00:46:32,859 --> 00:46:31,160
whole thing unfold say right you know

1133
00:46:34,690 --> 00:46:32,869
what I what I love about that answer is

1134
00:46:37,420 --> 00:46:34,700
because I I've said this before so I

1135
00:46:39,009 --> 00:46:37,430
don't care if i sell if it's sounds of

1136
00:46:40,359 --> 00:46:39,019
embarrassing right you just just be

1137
00:46:41,950 --> 00:46:40,369
clear brian has never been afraid to

1138
00:46:44,559 --> 00:46:41,960
embarrass himself no that's something

1139
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:44,569
that I appreciate about him I've always

1140
00:46:51,609 --> 00:46:47,690
said that the patterson-gimlin Bigfoot

1141
00:46:53,650 --> 00:46:51,619
film looks very real and I think the

1142
00:46:54,969 --> 00:46:53,660
historical evidence is clear that it's a

1143
00:46:56,890 --> 00:46:54,979
hoax yeah I think there's any question

1144
00:46:59,559 --> 00:46:56,900
about that but I think it's one of the

1145
00:47:01,390 --> 00:46:59,569
most brilliantly effective hoaxes ever

1146
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:01,400
because to me that looks like a real

1147
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:03,890
animal yeah yeah I've inverse

1148
00:47:08,349 --> 00:47:06,170
correlation between the the quality of

1149
00:47:10,749 --> 00:47:08,359
the film and how convincing it is he you

1150
00:47:13,450 --> 00:47:10,759
see the same thing with with UFO videos

1151
00:47:16,299 --> 00:47:13,460
where the clearer it is the the more

1152
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:16,309
obvious it is not UFO well there you got

1153
00:47:19,660 --> 00:47:18,079
now folks at home what would you go back

1154
00:47:21,370 --> 00:47:19,670
if you had a time machine and you could

1155
00:47:23,559 --> 00:47:21,380
witness something would you go back to

1156
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:23,569
Israel and see a certain young magician

1157
00:47:28,569 --> 00:47:25,249
learn his trade I wonder would that be

1158
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:28,579
the way to do it would you would you go

1159
00:47:32,590 --> 00:47:30,410
and see one of Harry Houdini zacks i

1160
00:47:33,820 --> 00:47:32,600
would i would ya

1161
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:33,830
that's until that's the good of this

1162
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:35,650
that's not a good even though that's not

1163
00:47:40,930 --> 00:47:38,570
strictly nobody but it's part of our

1164
00:47:42,700 --> 00:47:40,940
history yeah we are so good he said and

1165
00:47:45,130 --> 00:47:42,710
yah oh yah would love to I would love to

1166
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:45,140
be in one of those in one of those

1167
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:47,570
seance rooms when Houdini bossed us oh

1168
00:47:52,770 --> 00:47:49,520
yeah that would because just so they're

1169
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:52,780
just watch watch the master magician

1170
00:47:58,300 --> 00:47:55,730
Yalies yeah that's just zeroing in on

1171
00:48:00,250 --> 00:47:58,310
these on these these cheap tricks and

1172
00:48:02,020 --> 00:48:00,260
Buster and bust them that would be so

1173
00:48:03,310 --> 00:48:02,030
that would be so great oh maybe our

1174
00:48:04,660 --> 00:48:03,320
listeners would like to come here and

1175
00:48:06,430 --> 00:48:04,670
join us for this dinner we're having

1176
00:48:08,620 --> 00:48:06,440
tonight because when they hear this this

1177
00:48:10,180 --> 00:48:08,630
will be in the past yes that's true no I

1178
00:48:13,060 --> 00:48:10,190
don't see it even I'm sure they're here

1179
00:48:15,010 --> 00:48:13,070
in spirit Ben Radford thank you Brian

1180
00:48:17,050 --> 00:48:15,020
Dunning thank you why don't we join the

1181
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:17,060
rest of our body in the finish I had

1182
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:27,410
dinner let's do something it never ends

1183
00:48:31,630 --> 00:48:29,570
a friend starts talking about his new

1184
00:48:34,300 --> 00:48:31,640
reiki master and someone else just

1185
00:48:36,130 --> 00:48:34,310
posted about another all-natural cancer

1186
00:48:36,730 --> 00:48:36,140
cure that they don't want you to know

1187
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:36,740
about

1188
00:48:40,450 --> 00:48:38,690
as skeptics we spend a lot of time

1189
00:48:42,490 --> 00:48:40,460
trying to educate and protect those

1190
00:48:44,890 --> 00:48:42,500
around us but there is a way that you

1191
00:48:47,470 --> 00:48:44,900
can reach millions guerrilla skepticism

1192
00:48:49,270 --> 00:48:47,480
on Wikipedia is a group working to keep

1193
00:48:52,330 --> 00:48:49,280
the best skeptical information in

1194
00:48:55,990 --> 00:48:52,340
everyone's fingertips join us we need

1195
00:48:59,320 --> 00:48:56,000
writers editors translators we need you

1196
00:49:01,480 --> 00:48:59,330
you join us or find out more send a

1197
00:49:05,130 --> 00:49:01,490
facebook friend request to Susan Berbick

1198
00:49:11,730 --> 00:49:05,140
that's ger be icy guerrilla skepticism

1199
00:49:22,890 --> 00:49:16,680
here's my not spooky action at the

1200
00:49:27,309 --> 00:49:25,089
on the phone I have someone who

1201
00:49:29,620 --> 00:49:27,319
contacted me saying hey Maynard you must

1202
00:49:32,289 --> 00:49:29,630
be into Aeronautics and you'll certainly

1203
00:49:34,150 --> 00:49:32,299
into Aeronautics out llamarlo yes I am

1204
00:49:37,479 --> 00:49:34,160
and what did you contact me in the first

1205
00:49:39,309 --> 00:49:37,489
place well um I'm interested in

1206
00:49:43,900 --> 00:49:39,319
aeronautics I was in the space program

1207
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:43,910
for the majority of my career and I'm a

1208
00:49:50,380 --> 00:49:46,880
skeptic you certainly are in fact you're

1209
00:49:52,359 --> 00:49:50,390
really into helping retired people that

1210
00:49:56,289 --> 00:49:52,369
expand their critical thinking skills

1211
00:50:00,489 --> 00:49:56,299
that what are you into yes I am and but

1212
00:50:02,709 --> 00:50:00,499
also to young people as well and malo

1213
00:50:04,299 --> 00:50:02,719
actually what will you how long will you

1214
00:50:07,449 --> 00:50:04,309
at NASA and what were you involved in I

1215
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:07,459
believe you were involved in Apollo yes

1216
00:50:12,339 --> 00:50:09,680
it were actually I date back to the

1217
00:50:14,799 --> 00:50:12,349
original man in space program project

1218
00:50:18,489 --> 00:50:14,809
mercury mercury that means you're also

1219
00:50:22,089 --> 00:50:18,499
involved in Gemini as well yes I was had

1220
00:50:24,430 --> 00:50:22,099
major responsibilities in Gemini was it

1221
00:50:26,199 --> 00:50:24,440
exactly like Larry Hagman and I Dream of

1222
00:50:28,839 --> 00:50:26,209
Jeannie is that exactly what it was like

1223
00:50:32,609 --> 00:50:28,849
at NASA during that time I don't think

1224
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:32,619
so i think that was a total

1225
00:50:39,099 --> 00:50:36,890
misrepresentation starting off with we

1226
00:50:43,089 --> 00:50:39,109
had a number of military officers

1227
00:50:45,789 --> 00:50:43,099
working with us the original seven

1228
00:50:49,269 --> 00:50:45,799
mercury astronauts were all military

1229
00:50:51,999 --> 00:50:49,279
officers I never saw them once in their

1230
00:50:54,579 --> 00:50:52,009
military uniforms was the culture of

1231
00:50:56,199 --> 00:50:54,589
being an astronaut a little bit like the

1232
00:50:57,999 --> 00:50:56,209
Larry Hagman thinking that they had the

1233
00:51:02,559 --> 00:50:58,009
big convertible car and they were very

1234
00:51:06,029 --> 00:51:02,569
very extroverted people yes that part is

1235
00:51:09,069 --> 00:51:06,039
pretty good representation of the

1236
00:51:11,439 --> 00:51:09,079
original astronauts at plus the second

1237
00:51:13,809 --> 00:51:11,449
group and and further because I imagine

1238
00:51:17,019 --> 00:51:13,819
it would have been a very technically

1239
00:51:19,809 --> 00:51:17,029
intense time but was it a relaxed

1240
00:51:21,249 --> 00:51:19,819
culture or was it a fairly regimented

1241
00:51:22,959 --> 00:51:21,259
culture because you really had this

1242
00:51:25,779 --> 00:51:22,969
important job to do and you are on the

1243
00:51:27,789 --> 00:51:25,789
edge of engineering at that time I think

1244
00:51:32,349 --> 00:51:27,799
it was more of the latter because we

1245
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:32,359
were in a head-to-head race with the

1246
00:51:36,250 --> 00:51:32,930
Soviet

1247
00:51:41,099 --> 00:51:36,260
Union and you also have to remember the

1248
00:51:46,770 --> 00:51:41,109
culture in the in the 50s and 60s was

1249
00:51:50,859 --> 00:51:46,780
difficult time engineering-wise with the

1250
00:51:53,109 --> 00:51:50,869
arms race yeah there was some relaxed

1251
00:51:55,540 --> 00:51:53,119
culture but it was a pretty intense time

1252
00:51:57,700 --> 00:51:55,550
I guess it is easy to forget this

1253
00:52:00,160 --> 00:51:57,710
distance from the Cold War what the

1254
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:00,170
threat was thought to be at the time and

1255
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:02,210
what area were you working in at NASA

1256
00:52:09,549 --> 00:52:06,410
malo well I started off actually with

1257
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:09,559
the predecessor to NASA an organization

1258
00:52:16,420 --> 00:52:12,770
called naca national advisory committee

1259
00:52:21,150 --> 00:52:16,430
for aeronautics NACA if you know anybody

1260
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:21,160
in aviation NACA was the premier auto

1261
00:52:27,970 --> 00:52:24,410
aeronautical research organization and

1262
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:27,980
then after the launch of Sputnik which

1263
00:52:34,359 --> 00:52:31,280
happened in President Eisenhower's

1264
00:52:36,430 --> 00:52:34,369
administration he enacted something

1265
00:52:41,170 --> 00:52:36,440
called the National Space Act in the

1266
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:41,180
United States which formed NASA and the

1267
00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:44,930
organization that I was working for NACA

1268
00:52:53,890 --> 00:52:50,480
in in Virginia became the core group for

1269
00:52:56,289 --> 00:52:53,900
NASA and manned spaceflight because a

1270
00:52:58,780 --> 00:52:56,299
great deal is made about how America

1271
00:53:01,270 --> 00:52:58,790
felt when Sputnik was launched it was a

1272
00:53:03,010 --> 00:53:01,280
feeling of shame or a feeling of we've

1273
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:03,020
really got to catch up fast what was the

1274
00:53:08,859 --> 00:53:06,170
exact emotion I think it was some of

1275
00:53:12,130 --> 00:53:08,869
that and also terror we always thought

1276
00:53:16,630 --> 00:53:12,140
the Soviet Union was behind us in terms

1277
00:53:20,380 --> 00:53:16,640
of technological superiority launching

1278
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:20,390
sputnik was not only a psychological

1279
00:53:27,099 --> 00:53:23,569
downer for us but it really showed the

1280
00:53:30,549 --> 00:53:27,109
rest of the world the developing world

1281
00:53:32,620 --> 00:53:30,559
that hey maybe the communist system of

1282
00:53:35,349 --> 00:53:32,630
government is better than the capitalist

1283
00:53:37,420 --> 00:53:35,359
and as far as critical thinking guys and

1284
00:53:40,599 --> 00:53:37,430
skepticism that they think that goes

1285
00:53:42,010 --> 00:53:40,609
hand in hand with being an engineer and

1286
00:53:44,109 --> 00:53:42,020
to have that training or do you think

1287
00:53:46,750 --> 00:53:44,119
they still engineers still have that

1288
00:53:48,460 --> 00:53:46,760
little bit of luck and a bit of crushed

1289
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:48,470
fingers kind of thing that goes on with

1290
00:53:51,730 --> 00:53:50,090
some things there is a little bit of

1291
00:53:54,610 --> 00:53:51,740
whoo that can creep in from time to time

1292
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:54,620
do you think I never saw you happening

1293
00:54:00,370 --> 00:53:57,890
you know i'll give you the get asked you

1294
00:54:03,850 --> 00:54:00,380
the question would you get on an

1295
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:03,860
airplane as a commercial airliner that

1296
00:54:11,860 --> 00:54:07,330
wasn't designed and developed using

1297
00:54:14,740 --> 00:54:11,870
critical well researched engineering

1298
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:14,750
principles or would you want to have

1299
00:54:21,190 --> 00:54:18,290
something that had has the psychic

1300
00:54:23,290 --> 00:54:21,200
hotline involved in it that's a very

1301
00:54:29,010 --> 00:54:23,300
good question marlo and the answer is i

1302
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:29,020
don't think so right and with all the

1303
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:31,010
projects you're involved in of course

1304
00:54:35,470 --> 00:54:32,690
you mentioned mercury and then there was

1305
00:54:37,210 --> 00:54:35,480
gemini and apollo to just recently I

1306
00:54:40,060 --> 00:54:37,220
seem to been very fascinated with the

1307
00:54:41,530 --> 00:54:40,070
Apollo 7 mission which was the last one

1308
00:54:43,630 --> 00:54:41,540
around the earth where they were testing

1309
00:54:45,940 --> 00:54:43,640
a lot of things before Apollo 8 went and

1310
00:54:47,980 --> 00:54:45,950
circuited the moon and i found that

1311
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:47,990
mission very interesting because two of

1312
00:54:51,910 --> 00:54:50,570
the astronauts on that during their few

1313
00:54:53,890 --> 00:54:51,920
days that they were up there got very

1314
00:54:56,260 --> 00:54:53,900
snippy with master control and never

1315
00:54:57,610 --> 00:54:56,270
uses astronauts again and I think they

1316
00:55:00,070 --> 00:54:57,620
learned a lot in that mission and that

1317
00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:00,080
mission tends to be forgotten uh that's

1318
00:55:05,290 --> 00:55:01,730
that's a good point you're making

1319
00:55:08,290 --> 00:55:05,300
there's another thing that we learned we

1320
00:55:13,270 --> 00:55:08,300
ran into a medical problem that we never

1321
00:55:16,450 --> 00:55:13,280
had before in mercury and Gemini is that

1322
00:55:19,810 --> 00:55:16,460
mercury was a tiny tiny capsule that you

1323
00:55:22,750 --> 00:55:19,820
had a shoehorn the astronaut in Gemini

1324
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:22,760
was not really much better it was able

1325
00:55:29,020 --> 00:55:26,210
to fold two astronauts but they too were

1326
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:29,030
in rather cramped space but in Apollo

1327
00:55:36,790 --> 00:55:32,450
you've got this spacious big spaceship

1328
00:55:40,060 --> 00:55:36,800
and lo and behold we found out that they

1329
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:40,070
had something they called SAS space

1330
00:55:46,030 --> 00:55:43,370
adaptation syndrome which is the same

1331
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:46,040
thing as seasickness now is this

1332
00:55:50,050 --> 00:55:48,050
particularly because the inner ear

1333
00:55:51,940 --> 00:55:50,060
because it's got this area to roam

1334
00:55:54,390 --> 00:55:51,950
around in it can't work out what's up

1335
00:55:57,820 --> 00:55:54,400
and down and that causes a confusion I

1336
00:56:00,130 --> 00:55:57,830
believe that it is one of the ideas that

1337
00:56:02,830 --> 00:56:00,140
they they've uh

1338
00:56:07,690 --> 00:56:02,840
too but again I don't think the science

1339
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:07,700
has really been well investigated but it

1340
00:56:12,790 --> 00:56:09,410
seemed like we didn't have this problem

1341
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:12,800
for many hours of spaceflight on the two

1342
00:56:19,810 --> 00:56:16,130
previous programs but Apollo especially

1343
00:56:22,870 --> 00:56:19,820
Apollo 7 and and someone on Apollo 8 and

1344
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:22,880
the other thing that gets confused in

1345
00:56:28,660 --> 00:56:25,970
all this is the astronauts really want

1346
00:56:32,650 --> 00:56:28,670
to believe they're super human and so

1347
00:56:36,100 --> 00:56:32,660
when they start getting ill or or air

1348
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:36,110
sick or what if your artistic um they're

1349
00:56:42,700 --> 00:56:38,480
not too forthcoming and saying hey guys

1350
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:42,710
I'm I'm sick today don't have me do

1351
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:46,370
anything this is a typical of test

1352
00:56:51,430 --> 00:56:48,530
pilots and astronauts do you think by

1353
00:56:53,470 --> 00:56:51,440
drawing from scientists rather than test

1354
00:56:55,240 --> 00:56:53,480
pilots and a few of the astronauts that

1355
00:56:56,860 --> 00:56:55,250
went to the moon where actual scientists

1356
00:56:58,680 --> 00:56:56,870
rather than that it's a different type

1357
00:57:02,800 --> 00:56:58,690
of person you get a different result

1358
00:57:05,020 --> 00:57:02,810
well um no I don't think that's been our

1359
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:05,030
experience for example the worst case of

1360
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:08,960
this was on the Apollo mission that

1361
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:12,530
rusty Schweickart blue he got violently

1362
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:15,170
ill he was basically out of commission

1363
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:20,690
for a over a day instead and he was just

1364
00:57:28,180 --> 00:57:23,690
really terrible sickness and it was from

1365
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:28,190
vertigo like sensation inner ear and so

1366
00:57:31,810 --> 00:57:29,570
forth Emma's it was that because he

1367
00:57:34,990 --> 00:57:31,820
didn't have a background as a pilot as

1368
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:35,000
much as that was was I I don't know

1369
00:57:42,060 --> 00:57:37,760
whether we can attribute that to to his

1370
00:57:46,510 --> 00:57:42,070
problem or not I was not really in the

1371
00:57:49,990 --> 00:57:46,520
arrow medicine just you know sitting in

1372
00:57:52,450 --> 00:57:50,000
meetings and and being concerned about

1373
00:57:54,940 --> 00:57:52,460
it for the flight operations part of it

1374
00:57:58,660 --> 00:57:54,950
yes what actual area of the program were

1375
00:58:02,560 --> 00:57:58,670
you working in okay I started off in

1376
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:02,570
mercury being assigned to the Atlas

1377
00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:04,730
launch vehicle that was pushing them

1378
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:08,000
into Earth orbit I did the calculations

1379
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:11,210
on the performance of the Atlas vs.

1380
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:13,850
pushing up the spacecraft weed

1381
00:58:19,660 --> 00:58:16,370
into orbit and it really becomes quite a

1382
00:58:22,450 --> 00:58:19,670
probability game and I would brief the

1383
00:58:26,620 --> 00:58:22,460
crews and and management before each

1384
00:58:30,090 --> 00:58:26,630
mercury Floyd also we would give I was

1385
00:58:33,340 --> 00:58:30,100
served Eleison between ourselves and

1386
00:58:36,250 --> 00:58:33,350
NASA and the Air Force who had the Atlas

1387
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:36,260
rocket so they were responsible for that

1388
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:38,570
and I was responsible for tying it all

1389
00:58:44,740 --> 00:58:42,410
together and I was in my 20s when all

1390
00:58:48,100 --> 00:58:44,750
this was going on there must have been

1391
00:58:51,930 --> 00:58:48,110
so exciting it was it indeed it was

1392
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:51,940
really was in amongst all this the

1393
00:58:59,320 --> 00:58:56,000
announcement of President Kennedy that

1394
00:59:01,690 --> 00:58:59,330
we were going to the moon was another

1395
00:59:04,420 --> 00:59:01,700
excitement on top of it and I found out

1396
00:59:07,150 --> 00:59:04,430
after I transferred over from the

1397
00:59:08,650 --> 00:59:07,160
Aeronautics side to the space side that

1398
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:08,660
we were going to go to a new Space

1399
00:59:14,050 --> 00:59:12,050
Center and I just I have to ask you

1400
00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:14,060
something that Marlo Cassetti with your

1401
00:59:18,340 --> 00:59:16,640
experience at NASA when President

1402
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:18,350
Kennedy made that announcement I've

1403
00:59:21,820 --> 00:59:20,090
watched that piece of footage a number

1404
00:59:23,590 --> 00:59:21,830
of times have all seen it on various sir

1405
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:23,600
and he made that speech more than once

1406
00:59:28,300 --> 00:59:26,810
there is one that a very fairly public

1407
00:59:30,220 --> 00:59:28,310
speech and if you look behind him and

1408
00:59:33,700 --> 00:59:30,230
just to the right there's Vice President

1409
00:59:35,170 --> 00:59:33,710
Johnson & Johnson's got his hand against

1410
00:59:38,530 --> 00:59:35,180
the side of his head and you can almost

1411
00:59:40,900 --> 00:59:38,540
see him saying here we go again Jack's

1412
00:59:42,790 --> 00:59:40,910
coming up with one of these weird plans

1413
00:59:45,910 --> 00:59:42,800
it's he's got that look on his face like

1414
00:59:47,860 --> 00:59:45,920
what is he getting us into and I urge

1415
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:47,870
people to have a look at that whatever

1416
00:59:51,010 --> 00:59:49,610
you see Kennedy giving the speech just

1417
00:59:52,810 --> 00:59:51,020
to the ride have a look at John's and he

1418
00:59:54,850 --> 00:59:52,820
looks like a boy this is going to cost a

1419
00:59:56,290 --> 00:59:54,860
lot of money well the interesting thing

1420
00:59:58,030 --> 00:59:56,300
about that I know that I know the

1421
01:00:01,110 --> 00:59:58,040
footage you're talking about it i've

1422
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:01,120
i've gotten a laugh out of that too but

1423
01:00:06,340 --> 01:00:03,890
from all accounts of the kennedy

1424
01:00:08,770 --> 01:00:06,350
administration Vice President Johnson

1425
01:00:11,620 --> 01:00:08,780
was kind of shuffled off to the side he

1426
01:00:16,570 --> 01:00:11,630
wasn't involved in the in the Bay of

1427
01:00:19,630 --> 01:00:16,580
Pigs fiasco or the Cuban Missile Crisis

1428
01:00:22,210 --> 01:00:19,640
and so forth and so on but he was

1429
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:22,220
appointed by President Kennedy to be

1430
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:25,130
head of the president's base Council so

1431
01:00:30,700 --> 01:00:28,010
when the decision to

1432
01:00:32,740 --> 01:00:30,710
to go to a new Space Center to build a

1433
01:00:35,500 --> 01:00:32,750
brand-new Space Center to handle the

1434
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:35,510
Apollo program and all the innova

1435
01:00:39,610 --> 01:00:37,250
missions leading up to the all the

1436
01:00:42,540 --> 01:00:39,620
programs leading up to it he was

1437
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:42,550
presented with the top three candidate

1438
01:00:48,820 --> 01:00:45,410
number one was berkeley california

1439
01:00:51,310 --> 01:00:48,830
number two was tampa florida and number

1440
01:00:54,130 --> 01:00:51,320
three was houston texas no this is

1441
01:00:56,830 --> 01:00:54,140
rumored I I can't tell you this is what

1442
01:00:59,590 --> 01:00:56,840
really happened but when the site

1443
01:01:02,890 --> 01:00:59,600
selection committee briefed him on their

1444
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:02,900
their recommendations he looked at the

1445
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:06,050
leader of the group and said we're in

1446
01:01:12,790 --> 01:01:09,680
Texas is exactly in Texas is Berkeley

1447
01:01:15,790 --> 01:01:12,800
sexy and of course there's no such thing

1448
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:15,800
as Berkeley Texas so he went down the

1449
01:01:21,490 --> 01:01:17,690
list and picked Houston well he was a

1450
01:01:24,070 --> 01:01:21,500
proud Texan oil man he was indeed a

1451
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:24,080
shrewd politician we've probably never

1452
01:01:30,850 --> 01:01:28,610
had as good a political expert is Lyndon

1453
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:30,860
Johnson for president he could work with

1454
01:01:36,070 --> 01:01:33,530
Congress and the Supreme Court and

1455
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:36,080
everything else like an expert he could

1456
01:01:41,140 --> 01:01:39,530
play them like a fiddle yeah I I enjoy

1457
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:41,150
hearing those White House tapes that

1458
01:01:44,290 --> 01:01:42,410
have since been released of his

1459
01:01:46,300 --> 01:01:44,300
conversations but well with the with the

1460
01:01:49,060 --> 01:01:46,310
Kennedys and with some of the civil

1461
01:01:50,890 --> 01:01:49,070
rights people and like yeah he was and

1462
01:01:52,540 --> 01:01:50,900
he he also had a reputation of being a

1463
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:52,550
bit bit blue with some of the press

1464
01:01:58,660 --> 01:01:55,370
conferences he did as well you bet you

1465
01:02:01,720 --> 01:01:58,670
bet he was he was your typical Texan and

1466
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:01,730
people don't you gotta live in Texas for

1467
01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:05,050
26 years like I did you really

1468
01:02:27,700 --> 01:02:23,960
hey Kenny oh hi Tom I stay at this park

1469
01:02:30,110 --> 01:02:27,710
yeah yes great weather oh look a unicorn

1470
01:02:33,290 --> 01:02:30,120
unicorn there are no such things as

1471
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:33,300
unicorns silly yes there is no there

1472
01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:35,490
isn't hey guys what are you arguing

1473
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:37,760
about tom thinks unicorns are real

1474
01:02:43,850 --> 01:02:40,770
thanks so r let's look this up in the

1475
01:02:45,620 --> 01:02:43,860
skeptics dictionary the what how can we

1476
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:45,630
do this in this park there is no

1477
01:02:49,010 --> 01:02:47,310
computer here you guys probably don't

1478
01:02:52,070 --> 01:02:49,020
know about the skeptics dictionary app

1479
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:52,080
available now for iPhone iPad and iPod

1480
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:56,010
touch in the app store Wow cool the app

1481
01:02:59,780 --> 01:02:57,570
lets you access all of the great

1482
01:03:02,360 --> 01:02:59,790
skeptics dictionary articles when you're

1483
01:03:05,060 --> 01:03:02,370
on the go here let me look up unicorns

1484
01:03:07,610 --> 01:03:05,070
now cool Kenny prepare to be proven

1485
01:03:11,750 --> 01:03:07,620
wrong it says here the Unicorn is a

1486
01:03:13,010 --> 01:03:11,760
creature from fables aha actually I see

1487
01:03:15,590 --> 01:03:13,020
now that someone just dumped their ice

1488
01:03:20,260 --> 01:03:15,600
cream cone on that horse's head thanks

1489
01:03:34,250 --> 01:03:29,260
you

1490
01:03:37,190 --> 01:03:34,260
Sonnen what a mixed bag the skeptic zone

1491
01:03:38,900 --> 01:03:37,200
was today it's one of the things I like

1492
01:03:40,910 --> 01:03:38,910
about the skeptics own you never know

1493
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:40,920
what you're going to get I never know

1494
01:03:45,170 --> 01:03:43,050
what what you're going to get week to

1495
01:03:46,820 --> 01:03:45,180
week it's a bit of a surprise to me but

1496
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:46,830
I can tell you one thing coming up in

1497
01:03:51,710 --> 01:03:49,290
the next few weeks more interviews from

1498
01:03:53,380 --> 01:03:51,720
the amazing meeting more information

1499
01:03:56,030 --> 01:03:53,390
about the upcoming Australian skeptics

1500
01:03:59,210 --> 01:03:56,040
National Convention more main ardmore

1501
01:04:00,920 --> 01:03:59,220
dr. Aichi what more could you want and

1502
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:00,930
again thank you to all those people who

1503
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:03,930
came up and say hello to me and Joe

1504
01:04:09,730 --> 01:04:07,770
Benna mu at the amazing meeting in Las

1505
01:04:11,900 --> 01:04:09,740
Vegas what a lot of fun that was and

1506
01:04:14,860 --> 01:04:11,910
thank you to the James Randi Educational

1507
01:04:17,090 --> 01:04:14,870
Foundation and especially to DJ Grothe

1508
01:04:20,930 --> 01:04:17,100
always a pleasure to work with you DJ

1509
01:04:27,700 --> 01:04:20,940
and until next week this is Richard

1510
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:30,110
you've been listening to the skeptic

1511
01:04:38,870 --> 01:04:35,130
zone visit our website at www skeptics